The weekly alternate history debates!!

Redcoat wrote:DVP, note that if you don't want to elaborate on points, you should not be posting in the Podium. It's intended for deep discussion and intelligent debate. Your opinions are fine, but please elaborate on them if you wish to use this forum.

Anyways, to ensure I'm not continuing an old problem:

I haven't watched Star Wars, but I do know that without Luke, there wouldn't be a hope in hell for the Galaxy, at least not for generations. Though perhaps Yoda and the others could have found some other hero?

Fine, sorry for being special needs

Bangaro wrote:

Redcoat wrote:DVP, note that if you don't want to elaborate on points, you should not be posting in the Podium. It's intended for deep discussion and intelligent debate. Your opinions are fine, but please elaborate on them if you wish to use this forum.

Anyways, to ensure I'm not continuing an old problem:

I haven't watched Star Wars, but I do know that without Luke, there wouldn't be a hope in hell for the Galaxy, at least not for generations. Though perhaps Yoda and the others could have found some other hero?

Fine, sorry for being special needs

You realize he wasn't talking to you... yes?

BleachKing wrote:If the French Revolution of 1789 had never occurred, would the world be the same? Would the Age of Enlightenment have occurred, as France was the center of that intellectual movement. Or, would a long line of monarchy and dogmatic feudalism have prevailed against liberal / social reforms?

I might not be as well educated as say, Ze Redcoat or Canterbury (May I say you are a genius?), I have, from my time with Red on MSN, heard from him that without the French Revolution, the General Idea of Allies would not have developed (Don't take my word for it, I'm unsure whether I'm correct or not, and open to constructive criticisms) and made everything far more complicated for just about every war after the Revolution.

Although, I find the scenario hard to think of, as alternative or not, the Kingdom of France was in extreme Debt, had a weak ruler, and was basically a ticking time bomb - sooner or later the revolution would take place, and if that didn't happen, the whole of the French Kingdom would crash and burn, unless miraculously they were saved. If the Kingdom somehow Survived the 1800s and got into WWI, It still wouldn't change the fact that France was going to take a beating from the Germans anyways. XD

The Age of Enlightenment was around before the French Revolution, with some speculating it starting with Descartes' Discourse of Method (1637), Isaac Newton's Principia Mathematica (1687), or Britain's Glorious Revolution (1688). Actually, This Site explains the roots of The Enlightenment, beginning in the 14th and 15th centuries with Italian Humanists in the Renaissance that wished to "recapture some of the pride, breadth of spirit, and creativity of the ancient Greeks and Romans", so With or Without France Joining the band wagon, it would have continued, although certain books about Enlightenment by French Philosophers would probably have to be printed in Holland or not printed at all and sides of the Enlightenment that we know of now might not have ever been heard because of such.

I don't think it's possible honestly to prevent the French Revolution, or to explain "What would happen if there was no French Revolution" because It was just waiting to happen, the The Separation of Church and State was already happening, the French Kingdom was already near ruin, and the people were pissed off anyways, so it was a Powder Keg ready to explode, sooner or later (as already mentioned) the Kingdom would collapse, or the Revolution would have only been held off to a date after 1789. Although, if the Kingdom somehow survived long enough, Napolean and the Napoleanic Wars would never have happened, that or post-poned for a later date. It was pretty much meant to happen - Louis XIV was an overall disliked Monarch and things were going down the shitter sooner or later.

To Answer your last question, that wouldn't have been possible for much longer, if at all, as people were growing discontent of aristocrats and Monarchs, along with the lack of Separation between the State and the Church; the overall rise of The Enlightenment also played a role, as more people were questioning rulers and Churches more than they usually would if you rewinded a century or two, maybe less. With the rise of the Enlightenment and the success of the American Revolution and other Revolutions, the French Revolutionaries couldn't wait to kick out the Monarchy and the Kingdom was screwed anyways, along with the fact of being outdated for its time - which was more open and less oppressed than the Monarch/Kingdom Ruled World before it - I can't stress this point enough, but it was inevitable, really.

Again, as mentioned I'm open to constructive criticism, pick at my statements as you wish, but with reason would be nice.

Since no one has said anything yet, let us carry on the topic!

Question : What if WWI had never happened? Would another conflict just arise and cause WWI all over again in a different time, place, and way, or would there have been a possible prevention of WWII and the Atrocities of both wars? Also, would we be as militaristic and technologically advanced? How much would this change the world as we know it?

Eh, I don't really want to dive into this in fear of losing 30-some minutes on the clock.

I mean, a lot changed after WW1. I mean, are we to say that the Bolshevik revolution would have succeeded if Russia wasn't a country bogged down by an unpopular war? And how about all the countries that borrowed money from the United States? Would those countries be affected by the depression as much? And Africa could have a completely different shape than post war Africa. And the Middle East would have been different if we say that the Ottoman Empire never diminished.

Also, WW1 was the testing ground for a whole bundle of toys that the armies used. Chemical weapons, air warfare, submarine warfare, trench weaponry, tanks, etc. A lot would have been delayed, but I wont doubt that they will sprout out sometime in the future.