War With DPRK

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War With North Korea

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War With DPRK

Post by Desertback on Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:58 pm

We all know that North and South Korea have faced severe tenetions due to when a SK Warship had sunked. I was at work when one of my co workers asked me a question if the US went to war with DPRK, would we win?. I have always thought DPRK as the scum that showed be erased with all means. When it was my time to respond I could not answer yes right away but thought it very clearly that is the US would fight with the DPRK it would be a huge problem.

The reason why we should not is because like South Korea that has a Super Power ( us ) so does North Korea with China. We would face huge problems because we would be fighting the Chinnese as well and whom ever they got and this is not good at all. With 21 century weapons if the world went to war then it would be the last war with only losers and no winners.

I kept thinking about this and it made me reflect in my American History class in Highschool when the US Marines invaded the mainland of Japan and this also enlighten another problem because back in those days Japan spread propaganda about if the Americans invaded they will suffer the worst (canablism,torture, and anything that is crimes against humanity like Barbera Striesland music) and the only way to escape is to kill yourself. Which they did because many civilians would commit suscide and even though we are the invaders we try to fix problems not destroy them. North Korea does the same thing comparing anyone monsters that they are not allies with. One thing I saw when I watched a documentary of North Korea they stated anything like paper or whatever made in South Korea would "burn the ground and kill the people". Now if that is part of thier propaganda then they are much more that will make the civilians of DPRK have the same fates as the Japanesse civilians during WWII



Now do you believe we should invade or not and give us a reason why because my answer is no
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Canterbury on Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:14 am

War against North Korea will not end well at all in any circumstance. Considering that they have one of the largest military in the world, when a potential UN/US/SK force steamroll through their crappy 70s equipment and waves of soldiers, you are left with millions of former NK soldiers that are instantly out of jobs. Of course, the "good guys" could declare martial law and employ a bunch of NKoreans to help maintain order, but it is very likely that an isolated people that have long been fed with propaganda will not corporate as such.

So along with all these unemployed peoples stand a population that is entirely dependent on Communism, which we would assume would be quickly disposed of. At that, where would we suddenly find sufficient food to supply to an already impoverished and famine'd x 1000000 population? People are already starving to death under communism, and when we liberate them and have no answer to continuing starvation, it's going to be blamed on the us (which includes media, critics, and people who are quick to ridicule the west for failing on something that has been a long going failure, but willing to ignore the last part).

We would quickly lose support from these suffering people (well, for those who actually had our support in the first place) and be easily criticized because it's the nature of humans to simply find a way to criticize anything that moves in life.

And if those who were actually fortunate enough to hold resources and wealth in NK before the war realize that under a new system, they would lose all their power, there's almost nothing to stop them from allocating said resources to pay a bunch of dudes to start an insurgency in an attempt to maintain their power.

I say, let North Korea simply collapse before the rest of the world try to become their savior and end up with a pickle of a mess. At least then, it wouldn't be seen as a war.

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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Redcoat on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:33 am

North Korea is headed down the tubes. We should encourage regime change and, once the regime falls, send in humanitarian aid and save the nation with economic growth.
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by jbrians64 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:45 am

Fortunately, North Korea is not like Japan during world war 2. Japan raped and murdered many Chinese and Koreans, and there is a strange case in Japan, where many Japanese women still get raped. Japanese men actually have a cartoon about a superhero dude who punishes females by raping them when they do something bad. I don't understand what could be the reason of some Japanese people attempting to gang rape, but it probably has a lot to do with the suffering and humiliation the Japanese had to face at the closing of WW2.

I do not think going to war with North Korea is smart. We will see what we saw during Vietnam. A bunch of rioters. No matter what happens, the people win. I know that a riot can cause devastating things, and I do not wish it comes back to America. Besides, North Korea will eventually suffer from the poverty that they have, and Kim-Jong il will probably be kicked out, with him not satisfying the people.
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Bangaro on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:51 pm

Guys, you are all aware that the Korean War never ended, right?
No peace treaty was ever signed, just a long term Cease Fire

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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Canterbury on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:32 pm

Bangaro wrote:Guys, you are all aware that the Korean War never ended, right?
No peace treaty was ever signed, just a long term Cease Fire

Technicality aside, so what? A ceasefire and "not bombing the crap out of each other" is the same thing in anyone's book.

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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Desertback on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:59 pm

Only problem with the "let them fail" probably will not work because other countries are already giving aid to NK. Soon or later NK is just going to beg for aid and we as a world will give it because the people will suffer......What we need to do is destroy NKs arms dealing and other things these guys are doing
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Durandal on Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:27 am

Desertback wrote:Only problem with the "let them fail" probably will not work because other countries are already giving aid to NK. Soon or later NK is just going to beg for aid and we as a world will give it because the people will suffer......What we need to do is destroy NKs arms dealing and other things these guys are doing

Put plain and simple, another War with Korea is not what the US needs - we're already pissed off because of the useless Peace-keepers we have sitting around in Afghanistan, and the Korean War did not end well with the US, so an idea of attacking directly or indirectly (Are you suggesting sabotage?) would just make matters worse in America.

It wouldn't go well with the UN either...
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Desertback on Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:42 am

I know that the US is investigating Swiss Bank accounts that NK may be using and that's the way to do it. We should leave military pressure on NK like what Japan,SK, and US is doing now in international waters just to remind them who's watching. But we need to fight indirect war so we can eliminate NKs income.
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Redcoat on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:25 am

Speaking from a practical and moral point of view, war with North Korea is, if possible, a ham-fisted, likely ineffective method of solving the problem. Foreign aid, Desertback, has never been linked to economic growth in any country ever. If we can let the system run into the ground--and God knows it is--then changes will occur.
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Kamikaze_X on Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:57 pm

Also, as a reply to one of the first post's comment about "getting into a war with China"... that is almost impossible with a Global Economy that we are all in right now.

We owe China trillions of dollars, and they owe us large amounts as well. This isn't necessarily debt in the way you are thinking, but a mutual investment on both countries. This being said, if China were to get into a war with the US, one of their largest economic factors and trading partners, their economy would tank, also causing global depression the likes no one has seen before. This also can be said in the opposite as well, if we were to attack China or their ally.

The alliance system that countries are in, is in no way as much of a quagmire as it was in World War One, since the worlds economy stands before alliances in most cases. Also, one must ALWAYS consider the balance of power. Do you all understand that if war was to happen between large countries like the US and China or NK, countless other countries would definitely have to get involved to bring back national balance? ... This has been proven countless times throughout European / Global history, and I can back myself up ten fold if anyone disagrees.

But, going back to this debates main focus, yes, any conflict with NK would most definitely be a horrible choice. Soon enough, their own government and economy will crash anyway, only paving the way for reformation; whether it will be good reform or bad, that remains to be seen. But truly, in our current standing, economically, making war on NK would be draining. Fighting three wars at once is not only unprecedented, but during a global recession like this, it is downright illogical. No national leader in their right mind would ever try something so blatantly crippling to their own people, or others.
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Maikuolan on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:05 am

Something I'd just like to throw out there. Sure, they may both have governments based on the ideals of communism; But, if you do a bit of research into China-NK relations.. You'll quickly see how neither government particularly trusts the other, how their relationship stands on a tight-rope and exactly where they'd be likely to stand in the event of a conflict.

China does not want North Korea to go to war; This is not because of any sort of secret alliance or hidden agenda or anything like that; This is because China is well aware of where millions of North Koreans are likely to flee to if their country starts getting bombed, and having a few million North Koreans walk across the border over night would cause quite a few serious problems for China. It's for this same reason why the border between China and NK is the way it is — If you can, try to find a bit of information about the border area between China & NK — China has military posted around its border with NK at all times and a few rather nasty looking barb-wired walls not too dissimilar from that of the Israeli-Palestine "border".

Honestly, if by some chance, hostilities between US and NK resumed, this is how I think China would react (roughly):

1. Try to push its political weight against the US in forums such as the UN as a means to put pressure on the US to find a quick resolve to hostilities.

2. Whether this works or not, it would take a bit of time, either way. Meanwhile, China, becoming impatient, would start threatening financial repercussions, such as restricting imports/exports.

3. If hostilities cease, at this point, threats and pressure also cease, and everything returns to status quo. If they don't, pressure and threats increase, China further fortifies its border with NK, probably forces its citizens living in the area to move further inland and has military on ready stand-by to move into the area if needed, and to this point, threats are not carried out.

4. If hostilities break into all-out open conflict, both threats and pressure and instantly cease, China allies itself with the US against NK, but mostly makes its own independent military decisions except from US control. Possibly joint attacks on NK between China and US, but mostly, China claiming allegiance to the US, keeping most of its military positioned around the China-NK border, eliminating anyone that tries to enter China through that border and ignoring the NK-SK border as best it can, preferably keeping its military away from that area altogether and leaving it to the US to defend, as has been the case since the Korean War.

Meanwhile, ofcourse, everyone, especially countries like Japan, justifiably, question China's motives, and the political map of the war becomes ever more complicated as time goes by.

Basically, China would not like it if the US went to war with NK, but I do not believe there is even a remote chance of direct confrontation between the two if it did happen.
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Redcoat on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:09 am

Maik, as usual, provides an excellent overview of the situation and provides us with a reason he should post more in the Podium.

This makes perfect sense to me, honestly. I can't imagine China wanting to get into anything that big over a country as mad as North Korea. But I do wonder about what America would do once NK was taken. Nation-building?
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Kamikaze_X on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:35 am

Also, as for Japan in all of this... they would be more or less safe, even though literally all of Asia hates their guts. However, even with this said, they are beneath the US's nuclear umbrella, which would obviously deter most attackers, like China or NK. Fear of nuclear or military retaliation is a strong thing.
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Re: War With DPRK

Post by Canterbury on Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:10 pm

Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- Hours after North Korea's deadly artillery attacks Tuesday, South Korea's president said "enormous retaliation" is needed to stop Pyongyang's incitement, but international diplomats urgently appealed for restraint.

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